Ina Greiner: The Artist & The Body

00:00:00:

00:00:08: And welcome to the Inner Take podcast.

00:00:11: My name is Ramon Gardela, and I'm your host.

00:00:14: The Inner Take is a podcast for musicians A space to talk about what happens inside us when we make music The thoughts and feelings that shape how we play.

00:00:36: So if you are a musician stay right there.

00:00:39: Welcome to the inner take.

00:00:41: let's begin.

00:00:46: Hello everybody!

00:00:47: Welcome to the Inner Tech Podcast.

00:00:49: One more time, I'm really excited to welcome today my first non-music guest and this feels special because it shows that The Inner Tech podcast is not only for musicians but also anyone exploring creativity and expression.

00:01:02: Today's guest is Inna Greiner.

00:01:04: She's a dancer & teacher of Tangon for Chlore based in Cologne and originally from Berlin.

00:01:09: she has spent many years working deeply with dance and body awareness transformative bodywork.

00:01:17: This work is open to everyone, but especially relevant for artists and musicians!

00:01:21: So if you feel blocked in your performance creativity... If want learn new ways of dealing with fear anxiety or shame.. If we want let go automatic defense mechanism and unconscious patterns.

00:01:31: this interview is for YOU!

00:01:33: Let's hear what she has.

00:01:37: Hello, Ina.

00:01:37: Welcome to the Ina Tech podcast.

00:01:39: How are you doing today?

00:01:40: Thank You for having me.

00:01:42: it's really nice To be part of this and thank you For your trust or your curiosity in all This.

00:01:48: yeah very welcome And i was so happy to receive Your message.

00:01:52: So Ina listen to The podcast and contact Me because we know each other as I said In introduction and she told me It's so Nice that you're talking about these things Because what do?

00:02:06: There is also these gaps, there are also this missing spaces information and then we started talking.

00:02:12: And then we decided to make the spot cast together.

00:02:15: so The first question for you in now You're a dance teacher on your currently doing training program in transformative body work.

00:02:24: So can you explain us?

00:02:26: What it's about?

00:02:27: yes For me I would like start with how i actually got at that point of doing the training coming from dance.

00:02:38: And so as a dance teacher, I often come to point where... ...I had the feeling that something was missing.

00:02:46: So we talked about technique and I taught my students all these things.

00:02:52: but there is always this moment of they could not really do the technique well because something blocking them.

00:03:01: many times They're stiff in the shoulders, or they have trouble grounding.

00:03:06: Or really connecting to somebody else... ...or they are nervous and afraid of making mistakes And that actually keeps them from doing what they already know So.. ..they can do something but it's really blocking them.

00:03:26: so I started focusing more on those other aspects.

00:03:32: Since many years, I had received sessions in a similar kind of bodywork called Greenberg Method.

00:03:39: And it helped me with a lot of things.

00:03:42: after bit of research and talking to people who came across transformative body work which was founded by Sophie Kinkel from Berlin.

00:03:52: that's an embodiment training which means it helps us to get back to our bodies, really sense them and become aware of the patterns that we have built throughout our lives.

00:04:08: And through breath and awareness and touch We learn too.

00:04:13: let go these patterns first on a physical level and then also an emotional when I may then more energy available to do what we really want and need in our life.

00:04:29: So, we have more options to actually approach certain things.

00:04:34: It's so fantastic because Ina is not a musician And she's talking things now... ...and could be perfectly applied to musicians!

00:04:45: And i wanted to come back this thing that you said your students.

00:04:50: They were supposed to do something they know, but couldn't because there are things in our body and mind that block these things happen.

00:04:59: Although you know this!

00:05:01: And it also happens with music as we practice the whole time then have a play and now how?

00:05:07: But if someone says to us... You can't This is not going to work Then everything blows up.

00:05:15: Let's talk about the body of an instrument and this is, well a very interesting topic because as musicians we often tend to overlook the body so we left it behind.

00:05:28: Because I think that's not that important Can you tell us how this concept shows up in dance or all of things you

00:05:36: learned?

00:05:37: Or

00:05:37: are there other things that can be applied for your body and used as an instrument?

00:05:42: For me... This connects with Your ideas that you have already presented in the podcast, That we are a person and an artist And musician or dancer Or whatever.

00:05:58: So first part is The connection to personal level.

00:06:06: First of all it's home for us.

00:06:08: We literally live inside It.

00:06:11: We experience, meet world through our bodies And in many societies there is an over focus on the mind.

00:06:20: It's not just from musicians, it's every field and like this notion of I think therefore I am... ...and we ignore the signals of the body.

00:06:31: This can simply mean that you don't take breaks or eat Or ask for a hug when needed.

00:06:40: We ignore little signs of pain until our bodies talk so loudly that we have to stop what we're doing.

00:06:49: We also don't trust our gut instincts anymore, and so the body is basically divided into a head... ...and an inferior rest of the body.

00:06:59: We want to reconnect these two parts….

00:07:02: …to actually live in this space.

00:07:05: for the body For an artist it's very obvious You know, we move with our bodies.

00:07:16: We express something With our bodies...we connect through our bodies.

00:07:21: But as a musician or painter Or Something like that..We do exactly the same thing!

00:07:28: you Move your brush on canvas Hit keys, pluck strings Beat drum with hands, arms or legs even Use breath for wind instruments.

00:07:40: That's all body.

00:07:42: Everything happens through the body.

00:07:45: We express emotions, experiences, moods and when we tense or we are shaky it's much harder to do all these things And It needs a lot of more effort.

00:08:00: Another aspect is I'm sure you've noticed sometimes When You see A musician Or A dancer they seem to be one with the instrument or sometimes, there are oddly detached from it.

00:08:18: It's not like two different things and- Or as a dancer... The movement.. They do the movement?

00:08:26: ...or There ARE the movements And that touches us in very different ways I think.

00:08:34: so we need take care of this instruments That is our body In the same way that we take care of the instruments itself as a musician, for example.

00:08:47: So you take care they're in good shape You tune them, replace broken parts... ...you handle it with care and protect from potential harm.

00:08:57: control who gets access to it.

00:09:00: And listen!

00:09:03: The body is not a burden or another task.

00:09:10: It's the home of joy, creativity and connection.

00:09:15: Of emotion... ...of life itself.

00:09:18: basically

00:09:19: I had my first therapist in Buenos Aires.

00:09:22: She asked me why don't you have a yoga for example at the conservatory as an obligatory thing to do?

00:09:32: And i said no there is nothing with that body.

00:09:35: There was once something about it What's not dance, but she was like this should be obligatory for you musicians because You don't take care of your body.

00:09:48: Because you Don't understand how important it is.

00:09:52: and then I started practicing yoga because she told me you have to do something with Your body?

00:09:58: Because we are taking care of music.

00:09:59: This is very good.

00:10:00: But now i have To Do Something With Your Body And this thing that you mentioned when you see someone who Is playing or Dancing You see, okay.

00:10:10: This person is one with his instrument.

00:10:12: Do you think this has to do also that the person Is taking care of many aspects?

00:10:18: Of he's or her life and not just playing.

00:10:21: I mean taken care of the person And all the person.

00:10:24: i mean Also the body.

00:10:26: yes definitely it means That that your really connected To two your experiences unto what The Body tells you.

00:10:35: Because if you ignore it, then... You cannot be really with your body.

00:10:41: It's true!

00:10:42: It is interesting because I remember also when i practiced this When I did two years of yoga.

00:10:47: Then I was standing differently Playing.. I was feeling okay.

00:10:52: Now there something that wasn't here Two years ago And its very nice because you change the way to stand, to walk.

00:11:00: You're like more flexible and...

00:11:03: And also the people perceive you in a very different way.

00:11:10: if you kind of make yourself small then people will perceive as that.

00:11:16: If you really fill room with your presence Then it's totally different experience for audience.

00:11:24: There is word we said This is the word patterns, and patterns in music are very important because this pattern is something that you repeat for a long period of time.

00:11:38: But we have patterns in our body and our energy And these are stored in your body.

00:11:46: They can regulate the energy available.

00:11:48: I did a session yesterday with Inna Later, but now Ina what can you tell us about the patterns in our body?

00:12:01: So when we are growing up We have to deal with certain behavior from our caretakers or parents Or whoever is there and Since this is the only way.

00:12:15: No, we don't question it But we adapt in order to protect ourselves.

00:12:21: So when we are judged, when we're belittled and confronted with expectations etc.

00:12:29: We learn which kind of behaviour is serving us best.

00:12:33: How do you get our basic needs for food?

00:12:37: For safety?

00:12:38: For attention or love etc.

00:12:41: fulfilled?

00:12:44: This can mean that we make ourselves small, avoid making mistakes or being vulnerable, we always try to meet expectations.

00:12:55: We are really aware of our surroundings and what happens... ...and notice small things very fast because it's just what keeps us safe.

00:13:09: And these kind of patterns there many different options for this Are stored as physical tension.

00:13:16: They served us well in a certain time, but now that we are adults.

00:13:23: We can take care of ourselves much better and we can drop those patterns or learn how to drop them because they limit us.

00:13:32: They limit our energy their limit our life force And then we cannot be in the world with our full presence and we block our energy.

00:13:42: And this is what we are learning through the body work, to work with these patterns.

00:13:46: To get to know them and eventually release them... ...and find new ways of acting in the world.

00:13:52: Can you give an example?

00:13:54: What a pattern could be or should it have been?

00:13:57: Or your experience with patterns?

00:13:59: There's many different things.

00:14:03: One thing that has occurred quite often Is for instance when you're in a situation and afraid Yeah, of something.

00:14:13: Of being judged or making mistakes you kind of tense your shoulders for example.

00:14:18: this is a very typical thing and You... For example he can like pull the shoulders a bit forward And then protect basically your heart.

00:14:29: So you're not showing yourself because at some point It was dangerous to show up because it was judged or you were deprived of love, basically.

00:14:42: And then with this closed heart and this closed chest... You cannot really breathe fully!

00:14:52: Everything that you do is kind-of blocked.

00:14:54: It's like when you want to go out needs much more effort

00:14:59: Because if you went out When you are probably a little kid there was danger for you.

00:15:06: So let me get it clear, because I thought about this as an attitude how do we react with things and are in life depends on what your environment is like when a child?

00:15:20: What were the things that could or were difficult so dangerous?

00:15:25: You build a system of reactions but these also builds body patterns.

00:15:34: So your attitude at that moment builds also a body.

00:15:39: A body conception or form, or posture and you carry this on your life if You're not aware of these are going to react the same way And Your Body will react The Same Way.

00:15:51: so let's say That a change Of The Body would be Also Change Of The Attitude Also Necessary.

00:16:00: What Do You Think?

00:16:02: I think it goes hand-in-hand because a lot of times you know what can do differently.

00:16:09: You know that maybe not serving to be afraid, but when going on stage... ...it's no good to tense up or shake something.

00:16:25: But still is very hard actually change the mind pattern.

00:16:31: or what you also talk a lot in The podcast is like how you change your thoughts and how You change?

00:16:42: So when you work with the body and change these things in your body, then that attitude can also be changed.

00:17:10: Maybe if you experience it yourself... ...that when something changes to a certain part of your body,... ...your outlook on this world will change.

00:17:19: Absolutely!

00:17:20: The thing is because in music we know... It's not good to shake or it is Not Good To Be Afraid Or It Is Not Good.

00:17:29: And There Is One Way, Let'S See One Possible Way.

00:17:33: This Is To Try To Have It Gone.

00:17:38: Try Not To Shake Anymore and You Do Mental Training A Lot Of Things That Try To Take This Out.

00:17:48: My Point of View.

00:17:50: Sometimes Its Not Possible Because Maybe the way is to acknowledge that you have this and ask, okay.

00:17:57: Where does it come from?

00:17:58: Yeah You can do twenty activities that help you To have a better time on stage But sometimes there's like a wound That something happened And then its in yourself.

00:18:12: And how does the body react when you see these patterns and try to change them?

00:18:24: Does the body learn fast, then do a couple of sessions... ...and are automatically in another world with your body or how it works.

00:18:36: Because I can imagine this is long process!

00:18:41: How long that process takes may be very different with different people because it also depends over your story.

00:18:50: Some people have severe trauma, others maybe just a few micro-trauma.

00:18:58: that's what we call them.

00:18:59: I think yes We take away from the idea of not suppressing but letting it be there and then let the body digest also to raise the capacity of the body, To actually hold all these emotions or reactions Or whatever comes up.

00:19:25: For example when you're really like big and present in your body And then something shows up as fear or anger or Whatever.

00:19:37: we kind of raised the energy to be able to hold this things Because emotions themselves are not a bad thing.

00:19:46: It's just the question of do they serve us?

00:19:50: Do they block us?

00:19:52: what happens with these emotions?

00:19:56: so we stage fright.

00:19:57: for example We try to first acknowledge What is there, what does the body do?

00:20:04: and you can go to therapy And find out about all the stories.

00:20:10: that's one part, can be one part.

00:20:12: And the other part is to get to know what a body actually does and help it digest whatever is there... ...and then they are something where energy flows through your body.

00:20:31: you feel the ground again You have access Help you feel more secure, for example in a situation and you know.

00:20:43: okay This is exciting but I got this

00:20:47: so to be aware What what your body can do?

00:20:50: And also to be where.

00:20:52: why do you react like this?

00:20:54: or Why do you think like this?

00:20:56: Or why are You talking to yourself like these?

00:21:00: or how much potential Do you have if you open In my case.

00:21:06: For example your chest your chest breathing.

00:21:11: And I think it has both parts, It has the mind like to really be aware of the thoughts and all the thinking that's going on but on the other hand really observe what is happening in the body get to know how you're actually creating this kind of tension and to learn how you can open your chest, give the breath more space.

00:21:43: This is so helpful!

00:21:45: I recommend it for every musician or artist... take the body with you and to do something like this.

00:21:53: And, You can really unlock things that are happening there now in a little bit more practical.

00:22:20: how does it work exactly?

00:22:22: So you have experienced the session yourself and what we try to do is first, we tried to find out okay.

00:22:32: What's actually the aim where... Do you have challenges?

00:22:39: when we kind of map that aim a little bit?

00:22:43: then I would for example ask what is happening in your body when you are connecting to these challenging moments.

00:22:56: So we could do it and the listeners can also

00:23:01: try... Yeah,

00:23:01: let's go along a little bit!

00:23:04: So first would just try to sit a bit comfortably maybe move your shoulders a little?

00:23:13: We're doing it right now people.

00:23:16: Yes Let's Do It Together and just try to find a comfortable seat, breathe like really deeply.

00:23:25: And then you can try to think of the moment or situation that is challenging for you.

00:23:35: Then maybe close your eyes... You feel and observe what's actually happening in your body ...and do it little bit more And really go into this pattern, the tension.

00:23:54: So feel what is there?

00:23:57: Maybe Ramon you can tell us what's happening with you.

00:24:01: The first thing we did yesterday as Ina told was to know each other and try to find which also not very easy What is challenging for you right now, so you have to really connect with the things that are happening.

00:24:19: And in my case I said everything is going well and happy but i had some troubles to stand up for this new project because a part of me thinks they're not ready.

00:24:35: this is something that it's not easy because I have a musical career who everybody knows and you know, i feel safe there.

00:24:46: And doing these kind of things... It's new and challenging!

00:24:51: This was my theme.

00:24:52: ...and then in a notice how I was sitting?

00:24:56: My legs were like hanging

00:24:58: somehow?!

00:24:59: Then I noticed okay..my shoulders are getting to the inside ..and I really forgot to breathe.

00:25:08: And I told Dina, sometimes i'm on the street and said okay now have to breathe because when was the last time that really took a long breath?

00:25:19: We started working with these

00:25:22: things.

00:25:25: experience this, so when you try to really get into this feeling.

00:25:31: You can ask yourself okay what am I doing with my shoulders?

00:25:33: How is my butt?

00:25:35: Maybe you notice some tension in your belly or in your back Or...or your pelvis?

00:25:42: A lot of times people don't feel their legs anymore So we barely touch the ground With our feet.

00:25:50: It's kind like we're floating above the ground.

00:25:54: So these kind of things can happen and you notice them, just hold it for a little bit.

00:25:59: And then try to release again!

00:26:02: Try get rid off the tension as much as possible through breathing... ...to moving your body a little more.

00:26:11: Then just observe what changed when you actually do that?

00:26:18: What change did I make

00:26:19: in my life ?

00:26:20: I had this feeling where i was lying on the bed, and then after a time I was another person lying there.

00:26:30: There were some other people like that...I thought my body is now touching the bed completely because it's feeling okay.

00:26:39: i'm here but its not really grounding.

00:26:44: you know what happened to me?

00:26:45: And also started noticing how my breath was lower tone.

00:26:52: This was for me, okay.

00:26:53: Now I'm coming into another position in the session and what do you do with your hands?

00:27:04: What are things that you can feel or press... ...what is the body from someone else telling you about

00:27:12: it?".

00:27:12: This is a very complex thing because I'm helping, through the touch... ...I am helping a client to become more aware of certain things.

00:27:31: Through the touch or the muscles and bones there is... ..I try to get more awareness into this whole story And then we explore what's actually happening.

00:27:47: It's a bit hard to explain it all very much in detail, but I'm also trying... ...to work with my own presence.

00:27:57: So i'm trying to relax my own body and thus invite the client do the same.

00:28:05: so we connect through The Touch Through words Also And I invite whatever comes up.

00:28:14: sometimes somebody wants to move a little bit or shake something out, some trembling occurs.

00:28:22: Or it's cold and hot.

00:28:25: so I invite all these things through that we process whatever needs to be felt.

00:28:34: And this is very specific because as a patient you can, and you should move or do movements if your body wants to.

00:28:50: So it's not like... You have to stay there!

00:28:52: And then you react and find positions that are more comfortable because the body is asking for this.

00:29:02: How does this work?

00:29:07: with the patient and with movements of patients.

00:29:11: Can you see there are also things?

00:29:15: So I think, first off all... The difference between this kind of body work is that This work we're doing isn't a passive thing.

00:29:26: so it's not like i do something to the client.

00:29:31: It's much more teamwork.

00:29:33: We worked together.

00:29:35: through touch we get to certain things and it's not like I know what is right for you.

00:29:44: Maybe posing a question there, And i give my observations but You yourself have to find your own way of doing things.

00:29:58: Yeah, and so this is it's really a teamwork effort.

00:30:03: So that's why I invite the clients to actually give their Their part into this.

00:30:12: sure yeah.

00:30:13: I like the idea of team work And in my case yesterday?

00:30:18: I had things to do after this and some were kind of stressful for me and we talked with enough decision and I said okay just want to.

00:30:28: I know that there are can do the things, but i just want to be their and enjoy it.

00:30:33: The moment of being they're doing something challenging and this was yesterday.

00:30:37: on today she asked me okay how was it yesterday?

00:30:39: And he said yeah!

00:30:40: It...it was like this..I was there ..I was present ...and doesn't matter how other results of the call had or the lesson I gave ,but it was ok.

00:30:51: I know it's a lot, but i'm here and enjoying it.

00:30:55: And we are professional musicians as well as freelance artists all the time with projects... ...with work traveling and always planning ahead.

00:31:08: sometimes we're lost in this kind of thing.

00:31:10: what is happening tomorrow or one hour?

00:31:13: We forget to be there doing things that we do!

00:31:17: This helps a lot.

00:31:19: This was very helpful just to be there, you know?

00:31:22: So my body was there.

00:31:24: And this is amazing!

00:31:26: I mean... To really BE THERE in this moment and to really ENJOY what you're doing.... In the end, that's why we are doing it.

00:31:38: We do something so as not to think about the next thing but To really be in that moment and to be present, And give our whole selves into this.

00:31:50: This is what makes it so amazing at the end now That we're there and present and full of life!

00:32:07: It's just fascinating.

00:32:11: And this thing was, for me yesterday very... It was like an impact because I knew it but again to see.

00:32:20: This is the things we are doing that can control and also do in things that we cannot control.

00:32:30: Also compared if you want a project or start something new from the very beginning, okay I'm going to have this and these things.

00:32:45: If i play this piece ,I am gonna have these results.

00:32:48: if I don't play it is this result.

00:32:50: so you think you can control everything but then there are so many things that happened between these things That You Can't Control And YOU CAN'T Know The Things When You Started A Project Because These Things Happened BECAUSE YOU STARTED A PROJECT.

00:33:04: So It's Always Kind Of Start And Then You See how it goes.

00:33:09: And I think with this training and these body work happens exactly the same, you are doing things... let's say that there is a certain vibe in your body coming out to the world which cannot be controlled.

00:33:26: what was being controlled came into session but then something happened.

00:33:35: We have in German this beautiful world Ausstrahlung, which would be in English.

00:33:40: It's maybe you can say something like radiance?

00:33:43: Yeah!

00:33:44: Like radiance... The radiance that you are having.

00:33:47: You cannot control it and people get these things People receive them And there is a place for those things.

00:33:56: So when we start involving aspects of your life that you normally forget.

00:34:03: Would you agree with my theory?

00:34:04: I agree totally and i also want to add something because what pops up in my mind a lot is this term of vulnerability, Because as artists we are creating something no matter what your art is And Art or creation Is Something Totally Vulnerable Because You Do Something that has not been there before, and thus you cannot control it.

00:34:36: And we really need to go into a place where we can't control the outcome.

00:34:43: but what?

00:34:53: because, yes there is fear.

00:34:55: Yes they are making mistakes or being wrong.

00:35:01: all these kind of things but also the joy and pleasure.

00:35:06: There's a creation something new touching on people in many ways.

00:35:14: if we limit ourselves trying to control everything Creation isn't possible.

00:35:22: Absolutely, I completely agree with you.

00:35:24: You say joy and you say having fun.

00:35:27: in the last three podcast editions there are record with guests.

00:35:32: There was always this moment to have fun To try to have Fun.

00:35:38: i think for me Always do thing.

00:35:41: Having fun.

00:35:42: it's.

00:35:42: sometimes It's like okay?

00:35:44: What is these waters i have to Have fun.

00:35:46: or Is This Thing of Being There?

00:35:49: And This Thing too?

00:35:51: take with you the good and bad, if know that have a pattern in your body or couldn't do things every time are going to play talking shit about yourself.

00:36:10: Take this with you, take it to a session with Ina.

00:36:15: This is also part of yourself.

00:36:17: and if you involve the good or bad... And i said that's not a bad thing but what YOU think is bad!

00:36:23: You don't want to show people.

00:36:25: so you take both things go out into the world work on it.

00:36:31: then you can start having some fun because you are aware good for you and have to practice on it or involve all yourself in your life.

00:36:45: Yes, that's great!

00:36:49: More fun more pleasure.

00:36:51: okay this was the inner-tape podcast with Inna.

00:36:55: I'm so thankful Like this, like you did.

00:37:02: And I'm so happy that your offering these things and going to leave everybody a link in the podcast description.

00:37:08: if want contact Ena or more what she does feel free to contact her.

00:37:15: Thank You very much!

00:37:16: thank you for having me.

00:37:18: i know it was really fun.

00:37:20: I am really happy that you are doing all of this.

00:37:24: put yourself out there be present Give something to the world that's not been there before.

00:37:32: Yes, do that!

00:37:33: Thank you very much.

00:37:39: If this episode resonated with you I invite you take a look at mental notes.

00:37:44: The link is in description.

00:37:46: There you'll find texts videos and short resources That can help explore these ideas further And most importantly space to talk about

00:38:02: them.